Starsky & Hutch

[kiwisue]

A while ago a friend lent me Season One of Starsky & Hutch. I was a fan of the show years (many, many years) ago - David Soul was the one I adored back then. I've been working my way through the episodes. Although I've been enjoying them I can't say they've rekindled the flame.

Anyway, 'The Fix' is the episode that many people seem to think is the best one. I don't agree - there are too many reality check moments that annoy me. I scream "get a doctor!" at the TV every time I see the scene where Huggy Bear brings the tray of coffee up to the room. How the hell did they know what sort of crap he'd had shot into him?

I vastly prefer 'Pariah', which I watched again tonight. A good script and good work by both actors, but especially PMG. And all that caring stuff, nicely underplayed. I think the reason I can't get into S&H is that all the over-emoting rots my brain, but this episode works. I love the court sequence where the witness changes his story, the visit to the mother's house, the moment when Starsky jumps onto the bonnethood *g* of the truck as it backs out... even the scene when they're grilling Tramaine, because Rozakis' performance as the junkie is very good.

S&H friends - any thoughts?

Comments

[przed.livejournal.com]

Though Pariah is a great episode, I have to admit to being one of those that loves The Fix. In part, it's because I vividly remember watching it for the first time. (I was ten when it first aired and that was one of those moments where the slasher within me began to stir.) And I think in part I just really like all that over-emoting.

When it comes right down to it, though, I have to watch S&H with the part of my brain that knows anything about police procedure or medicine or any other topic they happen to stumble into firmly turned off. Because wow, do they blow that sort of thing at every opportunity.

Which is in part why Pros is such a pleasure much of the time. Yeah, there's plot holes aplenty in the eps, but they also did take the care with a lot of details of procedure. And Bodie actually knowing what to do when he finds Ray shot is worth his weight in gold, for my money.

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

*g* Bodie's worth his weight in gold anyway *g* But I know what you mean!

I suspect that I have a somewhat limited ability to turn off those parts of my brain, at least in areas I have some detailed knowledge of. Another person on my flist has similar issues with JJD, because of the liberties taken with courtroom procedure.

So combine the two - the irresponsible handling of Hutch's drugged-out state, and the (for a reserved NZer) OTT emoting - and I'm thrown out of the ep. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either.

[przed.livejournal.com]

Bodie's worth his weight in gold anyway

Well, yeah. ;)

As for turning off certain parts of your brain, I suspect I can do it (with difficulty) for S&H because I imprinted on the show as a kid so I had a deep-seated affection for it before I realized how naff it could be. (Mind you, I happened to be reading the non-fiction book that Homicide was based on the last time S&H was run on cable, about 5 years ago, and the lapses in police procedure really started to rankle.)

JJD, on the other hand, was a much harder sell for me. I work for a publisher of law books and used to be on the research end, so Deed doing patently ridiculously things in court would have me screaming at the television faster than Deed sleeping with yet another woman who's crossed his path mere minutes after he's sworn his love to Jo. Somewhere down the line I turned a corner and decided to be amused by both the silliness of the law and Deed's philandering.

[inamac.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to look at some S&H epis before replying - but you do need to distinguish episodes that are 'good television' - good plots/acting/direction/photography - from 'good-in-a-fannish-sense' - which usually comes down to 'how much angst/hurt/comfort' is onscreen and can this be extended infinitely by fanwriters?

The two rarely co-incide and are frequently mutually exclusive...

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

'good-in-a-fannish-sense' - which usually comes down to 'how much angst/hurt/comfort' is onscreen and can this be extended infinitely by fanwriters?

You're right, the fannish sense of what's appealing may have no connection to any slightly more 'objective' (written with fingers crossed) analysis of the quality of an episode. I think it's the juxtaposition of elements that I don't require in order to fannishly appreciate a show (the emoting) with others that I find plain wrong. Even though I remember reading quite a lot of stuff from the 60's & 70's about going "cold turkey" to quit drug use, so I should be able to watch it with my cultural historian glasses on, it still feels wrong.

Just me, I guess, and not wanting to rain on anyone else's parade!

[msmoat.livejournal.com]

S&H was the first fandom I wrote in, and I'm still very fond of it. There are other episodes like "Pariah" that are well-written and well-acted, but they tend to get overshadowed in fandom by the hurt/comfort/angst over-the-top episodes. I admit, I go for the emoting when it's related to the partnership, too. *g* So, "The Fix" is prime h/c territory (although not my favorite of the over-the-top emotion episodes), as are "Coffin for Starsky", "Shootout", "Bloodbath", "Sweet Revenge"(that one is "good television" as well as "good fannish kinks", I think), and lots of others. Is "Coffin for Starsky" filled with plot holes and silliness? Well, yeah, but I just get blown away by the scene where Starsky gives up his chance to find the antidote to save Hutch. What can I say? I'm a fan. *g*

When I first got into Pros I wanted to see more S&H-style emoting. Yes, well.... *g* It took me awhile to realize that, say, when Bodie picks up Doyle at the phone booth in "Slush Fund" we're seeing his emotion in the contrast between the tight control of the previous scene and the giddiness he displays when he picks Doyle up. It's great, and I love it...but at first I missed what we would have seen if that reunion had taken place on S&H. Funny how I don't miss it now. *g*

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

"Sweet Revenge"(that one is "good television" as well as "good fannish kinks", I think)

OK, I don't have season 4, but I'll take your word for it *g*. Might try & find a copy.

I think my tastes have changed too (and maybe Pros has been more than a little responsible for that) because I don't remember having any problem at all with the style of the show back then, and I was old enough to have some taste - although whether I exercised it is another thing *g*

It took me awhile to realize that, say, when Bodie picks up Doyle at the phone booth in "Slush Fund" we're seeing his emotion in the contrast between the tight control of the previous scene and the giddiness he displays when he picks Doyle up.

Ah, thank you for that... and the line "Aw, you banged your head", said with such affable nonchalance...

[metabolick.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen S&H since it first aired on TV, so I really can't address your question. But I have to say that of all the episodes, The Fix is the only one that I remember clearly. It scratched all my h/c itches way back when I was young and innocent, years before I had ever heard of slash.

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

That would be a topic for another day - looking back, with 20:20 hindsight mind, I'm pretty sure my first "pre-slash" pairing was Biggles/von Stalhein *g* (I don't do sidekick slash, as a general rule).

I obviously prefer the "stiff upper lip" take on relationships.

[callistosh65.livejournal.com]

I think the reason I can't get into S&H is that all the over-emoting rots my brain,

Nah, 's good for the soul!! Like others I have to admit that Starsky and Hutch bowled me over aged eleven all those years ago, and when fandom came around many, many years later it was a first love I went back to with avengance, as fandom finally articulated all that h/c I'd loved on screen in a way that suddenly much more 'grown up'.

[rosie55.livejournal.com]

"fandom finally articulated all that h/c I'd loved on screen in a way that suddenly much more 'grown up'"
Oh, doesn't that so exactly express my experience but for Pros in my case!
Pros is my only fandom, but I too adored S&H first as a teenager (It was Starsky for me then and Doyle in the Pros and those loyalties haven't changed!). I was tempted into getting the dvds of the first series of S&H a few months ago. And I've read a few fanfic stories - and, gosh there are enough of those to keep you going for a while, aren't there? And I did watch a couple of eps. But I haven't got round to watching any more. It just hasn't clicked this time around though it didn't put me off, just didn't have me reaching for the next disk.
Whereas Pros captured me again instantly when I got the dvds and I watched the whole lot, night after night over a period of about two months. Often in company with my teenage son, who also thoroughly enjoyed them. And I may have watched a few again since then! Once or twice!
I'm not sure why my reaction was so different, though it is much the same as kiwisue's. Perhaps Pros brings back more memories of life in that period for me, as it is set in England. And I do think that the quality of script,stories, production has worn incredibly well. But maybe it has more to do with the points msmoat makes about the subtle (but integral and critical to the whole series) interplay of B & D, and to some extent C, which is, of course, understated in a very English way! I've just been reading a book called "Watching the English" which is written by an anthropologist and which is funny and so, so true about how inhibited we are as a people! Makes me realise how very odd we must seem sometimes!

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

But maybe it has more to do with the points msmoat makes about the subtle (but integral and critical to the whole series) interplay of B & D, and to some extent C, which is, of course, understated in a very English way!

And for me that understatement, with the 'reading between the lines' opportunities it provides is so appealing! I suspect I'm reflecting my own cultural heritage here. NZ is not really like England, but it's more like England than it is like America. Just add 'laconic' and 'laid back' to 'understated' and I think you'll be close to capturing the feel of it, at least the way it is around my old haunts in Southland.

I've just been reading a book called "Watching the English" which is written by an anthropologist and which is funny and so, so true about how inhibited we are as a people!
Sounds like an interesting read. Of course, individuals are different, and I know many English people who aren't inhibited at all *g*. Most of my flist, for example.

[rosie55.livejournal.com]

Just add 'laconic' and 'laid back' to 'understated' and I think you'll be close to capturing the feel of it,
Sounds as though you may have the best of all worlds there!
Sounds like an interesting read.
It is a most interesting book and well written with some very funny bits. My daughter was highly amused by a section on the unwritten rules on contact with your fellow passengers when travelling and especially commuting, especially as she has now moved to London and has to do it. And coming from a very friendly small town in Gloucestershire where everyone knows each other and not speaking to someone (even strangers) is the height of rudeness, it gave her an insight into why it is different there.
A lot of fen talk about and appreciate the banter between the lads and I thought you might be interested to see what Kate Fox, the author, defines as the "rules of banter" (banter has twelve references in the index!).
"The rules of banter:
In most other cultures, flirtation and courtship involve exchanges of compliments: among the English you are more likely to hear exchanges of insults. Well. mock-insults, to be precise. ....
The key ingredients of flirtatious banter are all very English: humour, particularly irony; wordplay; argument; cynicism; mock-aggression; teasing; indirectness - all our favourite things. And banter specifically excludes all of the things we don't like and that make us uncomfortable: emotion, soppiness, earnestness and clarity."
Sounds familiar? She also has an interesting chapter on male bonding!
I was thinking about your uninhibited flist! I wonder whether the relative anonymity of the net allows us to be less inhibited than we might be in person? Many of us use different identities on the net and maybe this also gives us the psychological freedom to behave, "speak" in a different way or on different topics than we normally would? I doubt whether most of us are as upfront about our interest in Pros and slash at home than we are able to be amongst this relatively closed community where this is the norm! And maybe that also gives us the freedom to be similarly free of our normal constraints on the relatively rare occasions when we actually meet because we have established those other characteristics with each other. I honestly don't know, I haven't actually met any other Pros fans yet!

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

PS: callistosh65 replied to your post down the thread. Thought you might miss it if you weren't tracking.

[rosie55.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I keep forgetting about the tracking facility, though I often pop back to interesting discussions like this one. I'm tracking it now!

[kiwisue.livejournal.com]

Well, good for you! I'd never want to diss someone else's preferences.

Nah, 's good for the soul!!
Whatever our personal tastes, that's a great line!

[callistosh65.livejournal.com]

And I do think that the quality of script,stories, production has worn incredibly well.

Oh I think so. Rewatching Pros now, it's interesting to see how many very good actors were used for a lot of the bit parts. And how tight and provocative some of the scripts were. I just watched The Madness of Mickey Hamilton again last night - the man playing MH is great, and he's given enough lines and screen time to really set up a of horror and pathos about what he does. And his interaction with Doyle at the end is genuinely touching.

But maybe it has more to do with the points msmoat makes about the subtle (but integral and critical to the whole series) interplay of B & D, and to some extent C, which is, of course, understated in a very English way!

Exactly! And speaking as smn who is curently active as a reader and writer in both fandoms, *this* is what I love about Pros. The subtle interplay, the Englishness of it all. It's a totally different vibe to play around with and enjoy.

And besides all that it brings my English childhood back!

[rosie55.livejournal.com]

*this* is what I love about Pros. The subtle interplay, the Englishness of it all.
You might be interested in some of what I replied to kiwisue above and some quotes from a book called Watching the English and what it has to say about banter.

And besides all that it brings my English childhood back!

Oh, you youngsters! I was in my twenties/early thirties and married when Pros was first on. Didn't stop me fancying our Ray like mad, though!